I will be asked why I am an atheist. And therefor I need to give this answer right away.
I like to explain my atheism with a scenario.
We are living on a small blue planet that orbits a G-type star at a distance of about 150 mil. kilometers. There need to be a loot of parameters balanced very well to allow for life on this planet. But however numerous those constraints on the existence of advanced civilizations are - the universe is sufficiently huge to make it certain that there are advanced civilizations somewhere.
I don't want to argue at this place for the likelihood of those. I know very well that many Christians deny that those civilizations exist because their creation was never mentioned in the bible. I still want to ask my Christian readers to go with the existence of those civilizations just for the sake of this argument.
When presented with aliens in most Science-Fiction series on TV you will see most likely aliens about as much developed as we humans are. They might be advanced by several hundred years, but you rarely see civilizations that are developed even more.
From the early agricultural beginnings in Egypt to modern day you can roughly tell that the age of our civilization is 10,000 years. (or 6000 years if you committed to biblical creationism). Giving that there is no point of self-destruction in which every civilization when it reaches a certain point of development destroys itself there could be aliens whose civilization is millions of years old.
What would also mean that they are technologically advanced to a point where their abilities would seem magical or divine to us.
Should we therefor pack gold, silver, diamonds and things of worth into a rocket and shoot it into space?
My answer to it is clearly no, and I think most of my readers will agree.
Firstly, we don't know in which direction to shoot the rocket.
Secondly, we don't know whether gold, silver, diamonds and things that seem precious to us are of use for such a civilization.
Thirdly, the aliens never asked for it - even if, (like some UFO-scientists may claim) they did it in a way that the evidence for this is in modern days highly disputable. (to put is mildly)
Fourthly, we don't know whether our supply reaching one civilization wouldn't enrage another one.
Therefor the waste of shooting rockets loaded with valuables and the waste of time to do that isn't justified by any reason.
Now, after setting that up let us turn to theism.
Is it justified to send valuables to any kind of Gods?
And there are sent many valuables to God. Go to Europe and look at the cathedrals. Go to the muslim world and look at the mosques. Even Buddhism can be exceedingly wasteful. Simply research the Swedagon Pagoda in Burma.
Beyond the apparent things done for religion and massive amounts of valuables given to religious purposes, there is an enormous amount of time spent for those purposes - in every religion.
I reason against those sacrifices with the very same arguments than with shooting rockets into the sky.
Firstly, we don't know in which direction to shoot the rocket.
And we also don't know which God to give our time and money to.
Secondly, we don't know whether gold, silver, diamonds and things that seem valuable to us are of use for such a civilization.
How do we know that prayers are of use for God? How can anything we could give to a God be of use for him, her,it or them? God, if existent, could have anything he, she, it or they could want. What exactly do you think he, she, it or they needs from you?
Thirdly, the aliens never asked for it - even if (like some UFO-scientist may claim) they did it in a way that the evidence for this is in modern days highly disputable. (to put is mildly)
It is said that God asked for it. In the Bible, Quran or the Veden. But the origin of those books is also disputable. Supposing this God would be almighty we could expect there to be much better evidences for the demands. Extraordinary demands also need extraordinary proves.
Let's look at the bible for example.
If we go by the best estimations the first gospel was written 10 years after the death of Jesus. Jesus could have turned water into ink, sand into paper and made one of his disciples write his words and deeds down as they were said and done if he was the son of God. But: It seems that he trusted the most important things ever said and done into the hands of 10 years of gossip.
Even if those words and deeds were written down by a first hand witness; 10 years are still a long time. Anyone who doesn't believe that is asked at this point to write down what he or she did 10 years ago.
Fourthly, we don't know whether our supply reaching one civilization wouldn't enrage another one.
That's a really big problem with Gods. You sacrifice to one - you enrage another.
Conclusion:
Just like the aliens would need to show up and ask for their rockets full of gold and diamonds - God would also need to show some provable sort of interaction with this world that would be enough to justify the enormous amount of sacrifice he, she, it or they demand.
The ambition of a lot of atheists or agnostics to disprove that he, she, it or they don't exist is leading nowhere. The lack of provable interaction itself justifies a de-facto atheism completely. I don't discard the possibility of the existence of a God or Gods but I discard the necessity to give anything to them.

4 Kommentare:
Some sort of provable interaction.
that's easy. i got 2 posts on my blog on the resurrection of Jesus complete with a challenge at the end.
I do not think "proof" exists outside of mathematics- but I do think that all that s necessary is to show that a proposition is more reasonable than its negation.
Mike -
You said:
1." Secondly, we don't know whether gold, silver, diamonds and things that seem valuable to us are of use for such a civilization.
How do we know that prayers are of use for God?
"
In Judeo-Christian beliefs, prayers are not useful to God. They are a means of communicating desires of a believer to God.
(the topic of an 'all-knowing' God who knows your needs before you express them in prayer, that is another topic).
As far as 'gold, silver, diamonds and things' - these aren't required by God as 'valuable objects' or for any type of storing up of wealth. God created all these things - why would he need his creations (people) to give him his creations (gold, silver, diamonds and things)?
As expressed in Judaism and Christianity, the desire of God to have man give him things (burnt offerings, tithes, etc.) are to show obedience to God.
For instance - in the story of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5) - they gave to God of the sale of their property - but they lied about the amount they received. We can only suppose they either pledged the whole amount or a specific percentage, and what they gave did not meet this amount.
Their punishment was the sin of lying to God, or disobedience. Accordingly, if they'd simply been honest about their giving (pledging less than the whole price of the property, or pledging a lower percentage), they would not have suffered the penalty.
2.) "Fourthly, we don't know whether our supply reaching one civilization wouldn't enrage another one.
That's a really big problem with Gods. You sacrifice to one - you enrage another. "
You're making prepositions based on suppositions.
You're assuming that someone who wants to 'please God' would have the desire to 'cover their bases', so to speak, and do their best to please ALL 'possible' gods.
A believer in a certain deity would not worry about pleasing all possible gods. Their belief would be that their god is the only true god (at least in monotheistic societies) or that they are praying or supplicating (to)the 'applicable' god (as in Hindu or other polytheistic societies).
At least, these are what I see as responses to your post. Perhaps I misunderstood your reasoning, perhaps not.
The Fourth part of the argumentation was more for those who would throw Pascal's Wager around.
So it didn't really apply to you.
When it comes to the rebuttal of the 2nd part of the argumentation: This constant showing of obedience is in my metaphor the valuables that you shoot up into space.
Having to show constant obedience is a sacrifice even more precious than gold and I ask you what is God's benefit from that?
Why does an almighty entity need this constant assurance of obedience by his followers?
Did you ever feel the need that ants would show you obedience?
I seriously don't. The moon does not care about the wolves who howl at her.
Hello German Mike,
Que Paso? I followed your email to your blog and I remember reading this very post several months back. So yes I have crossed your path in the past!
I was wrong when I said that I had nothing to do with Way of the Master other than listening to it and posessing a book published by them. I forgot. I have met Trish (WofM) and her husband Emilio. I also went to their church a couple of months ago and I have to say that both Trish and Emilio, as well as every member of their congregation, were as loving and accepting as any group of people I have EVER been around. I almost felt more welcome stepping into their church than I feel when I go home to my parents.
My point in saying this is, despite the fact that you have a bone to pick with WotM, they are not a bunch of mean spirited people. They are a bunch of Christians who genuinely care about other people...yourself incluced. :)
You wrote-"Having to show constant obedience is a sacrifice even more precious than gold and I ask you what is God's benefit from that?"
It seems that you are assuming that Christianity teaches that we can give to God or give something to God that He is lacking. The sacrifice that we make is of no benefit to Him. The benefit is to ourselves.
"Why does an almighty entity need this constant assurance of obedience by his followers?"
As alluded to above, He doesnt need any assurance from us(if He did then He couldnt be God).
"Did you ever feel the need that ants would show you obedience?"
Yes. Yes I have. Our yard is full of fire ants and they swarm anyone who bothers their nests attacking with a sting that feels like tiny cigarettes being put out on you...Even now I wish that these ants would leave when I scream in pain for them to "GET OUT OF MY YARD"... :)
Seriously though, I would like to suggest a book to you that will answer your questions much better than what I am able to do. It is
Desiring God. http://www.desiringgod.org/dg/id1.htm
May God fill you with joy in inexplicable! :) Namely Himself,
mike
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